SQL Server Performance

How Can you advocate the use of DB Net Grid?

Discussion in 'Third Party Tools' started by realmerl, May 26, 2005.

  1. realmerl New Member

    Hello Sql Server Performance.
    I am very worried that you seem to be advocating the use of db netgrid, as you are advertising it in the links at the bottom of your pages.
    We have an application here, which uses this "product", and I have to say, that I would not recommend it to a mouse.
    It#%92s about as much use as a chocolate teapot, unless you are dealing with no more than 2 unformatted rows.
    My budgie can do a better job than this!.
    The words "Performance" and dbnet grid do not go together very well.
    I think that you should not be recommending it to anyone, as it is very poor when dealing with any ammount of data, and it has caused us so much pain here.
    I respect sql server performance; however, I would recommend that you remove the dbnetgrid site link.

    this is not our post, but we have all the same data access issues.
    http://www.dbnetgrid.com/dbnetgrid/...ID=804&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=selectModifier

    regards
    Merlin
  2. dineshasanka Moderator

    There are few peopl ewho has praised about this software
    http://www.dbnetgrid.com/shared/testimonials.aspx
    Try to contact them.
    I try to find out some review on this . But couldn't find any.


    quote:Originally posted by realmerl

    Hello Sql Server Performance.
    I am very worried that you seem to be advocating the use of db netgrid, as you are advertising it in the links at the bottom of your pages.
    We have an application here, which uses this "product", and I have to say, that I would not recommend it to a mouse.
    It#%92s about as much use as a chocolate teapot, unless you are dealing with no more than 2 unformatted rows.

  3. realmerl New Member

    The testimonials look great,
    Have you actually used the "application" yourself?

    The problem we have is Performance, running the sql in query analyzer takes a mere second or two, yet, when using the netgrid, (true, with some client side row formatting), you are looking at 4/5 seconds to upwards of 10 seconds, and that is to simply return 10 rows!!
    and if the table you are looking at has a few million rows say, and you want to see the first 5 rows... forget it , it will simply lockup and timeout.
    This may be handy for a sweet and simple small web application, but if you make the mistake of trying to use it in earnest, you are in big trouble.
    Our web all uses multiple grids on some pages, and that makes it run even slower.
    Even hooked up to near empty databases, you have a good five seconds per page (paging set to 10 rows).



    MerlinÆ
  4. mmarovic Active Member

    Merlin, thank you for review. It is nice to have feedback from people that actually used specific tool. If someone has different opinion based on experience with the tool, feel free to offer your point of view. I guess the tool is not really as great as advertised or it has to be carefully configured for acceptable performance.
  5. markyoxall New Member

    Dear Merlin

    You seem quite passionate about this subject and have no doubt endured many stressful hours dealing with this product. Given that you are a close confidante to a mouse and appear capable of providing gainful employment to budgies, may I suggest that you consider a more stress-free occupation - Zoology perhaps?

    Mark
  6. bradmcgehee New Member

    I suggest you contact the vendor to see if they can help.

    -----------------------------
    Brad M. McGehee, MVP
    Webmaster
    SQL-Server-Performance.Com
  7. realmerl New Member

    We have, it does not help much, but the point I was trying make was that i was that i would not recomend the use of this product, and I think it demeans your site, as you do seem to be recommending it.
    I shall say no more..

    MerlinÆ
  8. dineshasanka Moderator

    Well, I think this idea is a good review on the product.
    But I don't think advertsing does not effect the site. it is not practicle to do a review before advertising.


    quote:Originally posted by realmerl

    We have, it does not help much, but the point I was trying make was that i was that i would not recomend the use of this product, and I think it demeans your site, as you do seem to be recommending it.
    I shall say no more..

    MerlinÆ
  9. FrankKalis Moderator

  10. markyoxall New Member

    Hi Frank

    I am not associated with the vendor but I do have a degree in psychology and I believe that Merlin is suffering from Techno Saddamitis. This is a rare form of Paranoic Megalomania where the victim is convinced that all of his worldly problems lay at the alter of software development tools such as DBNetGrid. Unless he receives the correct treatment and therapy in the very near future, I fear that he may find himself in an underground dwelling discussing the peculiarities of the non-concious mind with his budgie. He needs help and he needs it now. I realise that this may not be the time or the place to discuss this but in my capacity as a doctor of anthromorphic neuro-psychotic anomolies I feel it is my duty to alert the victim as to his illness. If he wishes to contact me to discuss the various remedies I have at my disposal I would be more than happy to accommodate him at my clinic in Bavaria.
  11. satya Moderator

    [<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-2.gif' alt=':D' />][<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-2.gif' alt=':D' />][<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-2.gif' alt=':D' />] LOL... a good one on friday.[xx(]<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by markyoxall</i><br /><br />Hi Frank<br /> <br />I am not associated with the vendor but I do have a degree in psychology and I believe that Merlin is suffering from Techno Saddamitis. This is a rare form of Paranoic Megalomania where the victim is convinced that all of his worldly problems lay at the alter of software development tools such as DBNetGrid. Unless he receives the correct treatment and therapy in the very near future, I fear that he may find himself in an underground dwelling discussing the peculiarities of the non-concious mind with his budgie. He needs help and he needs it now. I realise that this may not be the time or the place to discuss this but in my capacity as a doctor of anthromorphic neuro-psychotic anomolies I feel it is my duty to alert the victim as to his illness. If he wishes to contact me to discuss the various remedies I have at my disposal I would be more than happy to accommodate him at my clinic in Bavaria.<br /><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><br /><br /><hr noshade size="1"><b>Satya SKJ</b><br />Moderator<br /<a target="_blank" href=http://www.SQL-Server-Performance.Com/forum>http://www.SQL-Server-Performance.Com/forum</a><br /><center><font color="teal"><font size="1">This posting is provided “AS IS” with no rights for the sake of <i>knowledge sharing.</i></font id="size1"></font id="teal"></center>
  12. FrankKalis Moderator

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by markyoxall</i><br /><br />Hi Frank<br /> <br />I am not associated with the vendor but I do have a degree in psychology and I believe that Merlin is suffering from Techno Saddamitis. This is a rare form of Paranoic Megalomania where the victim is convinced that all of his worldly problems lay at the alter of software development tools such as DBNetGrid. Unless he receives the correct treatment and therapy in the very near future, I fear that he may find himself in an underground dwelling discussing the peculiarities of the non-concious mind with his budgie. He needs help and he needs it now. I realise that this may not be the time or the place to discuss this but in my capacity as a doctor of anthromorphic neuro-psychotic anomolies I feel it is my duty to alert the victim as to his illness. If he wishes to contact me to discuss the various remedies I have at my disposal I would be more than happy to accommodate him at my clinic in Bavaria.<br /><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><br />Man, you really got me flipping through the pages of my online dictionary. <br />You have noticed that I am not a native speaker? [<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-5.gif' alt=';)' />]<br />So, I am not sure if I have understood everything in its sophisticated meaning, but from wehat I have understood I agree with Satya, that it's a good Friday funny. [<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-4.gif' alt=':p' />]<br /><br />--<br />Frank Kalis<br />SQL Server MVP<br /<a target="_blank" href=http://www.insidesql.de>http://www.insidesql.de</a><br />
  13. mmarovic Active Member

    ... and I'm god myself using a new communication channel.
  14. realmerl New Member

    Look, Will you all stop trying to make this into some sort of "funny" comedy forum or something.
    I have put this post up here, as a serious topic, as i have got some serious issues here.
    It may be a friday for all of you, well to do programmers, but for me, (i have no friends, apart from the mice) I dont find it funny at all.
    We dont all want to break up the hard, grinding day, with some light hilarity!
    I try to save the banter, and the fun and games for when i am back in my hovel, talking to my mice, and drinking lots of tea.
    If the world was about to end, (as it is in some circles - mainly as a result of the afore mentioned product), i would still not be laughing, except for maybe at the very last moment.
    What planet do you people come from!

    Thank the stars its friday.

    MerlinÆ
  15. dineshasanka Moderator

    I also feel it is not nice tto joke as one of our friend in trouble. But it is all himor.
    anyway, did you try to contact any support staff regading this matter. if so what was the outcome


    quote:Originally posted by realmerl

    Look, Will you all stop trying to make this into some sort of "funny" comedy forum or something.
    I have put this post up here, as a serious topic, as i have got some serious issues here.
    It may be a friday for all of you, well to do programmers, but for me, (i have no friends, apart from the mice) I dont find it funny at all.
    We dont all want to break up the hard, grinding day, with some light hilarity!
    I try to save the banter, and the fun and games for when i am back in my hovel, talking to my mice, and drinking lots of tea.
    If the world was about to end, (as it is in some circles - mainly as a result of the afore mentioned product), i would still not be laughing, except for maybe at the very last moment.
    What planet do you people come from!

    Thank the stars its friday.

    MerlinÆ
  16. realmerl New Member

    Just dont use it<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-1.gif' alt=':)' /><br /><br />MerlinÆ
  17. blockwood New Member

    quote:Originally posted by realmerl

    The testimonials look great,
    Have you actually used the "application" yourself?

    The problem we have is Performance, running the sql in query analyzer takes a mere second or two, yet, when using the netgrid, (true, with some client side row formatting), you are looking at 4/5 seconds to upwards of 10 seconds, and that is to simply return 10 rows!!
    a multiple of 2x-5x for rich HTML/Web rendering vs stripped down Windows based output - QA would seen pretty acceptable to me considering u r comparing apples to oranges.

    there is no way you can compare windows vs web times and definitely not if you add more than just text output (colors, live connection, editing etc)


    quote:Originally posted by realmerl
    and if the table you are looking at has a few million rows say, and you want to see the first 5 rows... forget it , it will simply lockup and timeout.
    MerlinÆ
    can't u use a filter. not sure why would u want to pull a million rows over the wire and render them just to look at 5. why not execute a subquery - i'm sure dbnetgrid offers the ability to filter or point to a proc that accepted param/where clause.

    i haven't technically used DBNetGrid but i've tried demo and i suppose on some level we compete with them. I have to say i sympathize with them on this post though as any vendor could be hit with this complaint. rendering millions of rowss via HTML quickly or achieving QA level output performance just isn't possible and i've been trying for years.

    Brian Lockwood
    ApexSQL Software
    http://www.apexsql.com
    http://www.apexsql.com/blog/
  18. derrickleggett New Member

    I'm sorry. I just read this and still think it's incredibly funny. [<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-1.gif' alt=':)' />]<br /><br />MeanOldDBA<br />derrickleggett@hotmail.com<br /><br />When life gives you a lemon, fire the DBA.
  19. realmerl New Member

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by blockwood</i><br />QA would seen pretty acceptable to me considering u r comparing apples to oranges.<br /><br />there is no way you can compare windows vs web times and definitely not if you add more than just text output (colors, live connection, editing etc)<br /><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><br /><br />This is totally true, and I totally agree with you, I dont expect (unlike some here) to get performance anywhere near a desktop app, however this takes the biscuit as it seems to return the whole lot to the client, then only show the amount of rows specified, which is sort of ok-ish, (if it were caching it, so that its fast to page, but no) as were running it only on the Lan, however , when you klick the next page button..... yep, it re-does the whole lot again<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-6.gif' alt=':(' /> (or so it seems)[xx(]<br /><br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by blockwood</i><br />can't u use a filter. not sure why would u want to pull a million rows over the wire and render them just to look at 5. why not execute a subquery - i'm sure dbnetgrid offers the ability to filter or point to a proc that accepted param/where clause.<br /><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><br /><br />Good points and suggestions, however dbnetgrid (not our name for it<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-1.gif' alt=':)' />) creates its own database connections etc, and builds queries based on the fields required, so we can only (as we are forced to use it) set the amount of rows to disply in the grid, and hope for the best.<br /><br />If it was my app, id delete the whole lot, dump the grid and rewrite in c# or something.<br />Sorry to the devs in dbnetgrid who have worked so hard to produce this thing, but it is unfortunately totally usless for what we are doing with it, i.e access a large amount of data (not display as once mind u), as we are totally overloading it... <br /><br />Thats my rant for the day, I could go on for hours and hours, but best not..<br /><br />Thanks for your good suggestions, Ill have a look at your grid software also<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-1.gif' alt=':)' />m, would love to test them both side by side.......<br /><br />All the best to all[8D]<br /><br /><br />MerlinÆ
  20. realmerl New Member

    And dont even start talking to me about Crystal Reports.


    MerlinÆ
  21. realmerl New Member

    aha, i notice the dbnetgrid link has disappeared[<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-2.gif' alt=':D' />]!<br />bout time to [<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-3.gif' alt=':eek:' />)]<br /><br /><br /><br />MerlinÆ

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