SQL Server Performance

My beef with getting DBA work in 2001/2.

Discussion in 'The Lighter Side of Being a DBA' started by jaybee, Jul 7, 2007.

  1. jaybee New Member

    The number of companies asking for hybrid DBA/Developers. To be more precise, the fact that they heavily outnumber those asking for PURE DBA's - even to this day.

    Yes, you can say, "Get real, Jaybee, many companies are too damn tight purse-stringed to pay for a junior dba plus junior developer, and would rather pay a single, experienced guy nearly double who performs both.

    I know that - but, if you want me to develop, TRAIN me to develop. Don't call me in with a fraudulent advert for a PURE DBA.

    Back in the bust years, I quite literally walked out in the middle of 2 so-called "DBA" interviews where some 20-something dollybird was asking me a series of developery questions. I remember the very last one I put up with was, "How many columns can a SQL Server table carry?" before replying, "Probably more than the amount of cash you can afford to pay per week, I'll give the temporary pass back to the receptionist and see myself out, have a nice life".

    Of course, nowadays I can sniff out cheapskate clients a mile off, and coupled with the recovery, things are actually quite rosy. But it's a learning curve that didn't need to be so damn painful.

    Jaybee.
  2. FrankKalis Moderator

    Sad, but true. [<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-1.gif' alt=':)' />]<br /><br />--<br />Frank Kalis<br />Microsoft SQL Server MVP<br />Contributing Editor, Writer & Forum Moderator<a target="_blank" href=http://www.sql-server-performance.com>http://www.sql-server-performance.com</a><br />Webmaster:<a target="_blank" href=http://www.insidesql.de>http://www.insidesql.de</a>
  3. satya Moderator

    Absolutely, the job agencies are only back of bucks and what they look is spelling within the CV that matches to the job requirement. Very very few out there will go deep into your skills before they put forward for an interview.

    Satya SKJ
    Microsoft SQL Server MVP
    Writer, Contributing Editor & Moderator
    http://www.SQL-Server-Performance.Com
    This posting is provided AS IS with no rights for the sake of knowledge sharing. Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information on it.
  4. jaybee New Member

    quote:Originally posted by satya

    Absolutely, the job agencies are only back of bucks and what they look is spelling within the CV that matches to the job requirement. Very very few out there will go deep into your skills before they put forward for an interview.

    Satya SKJ
    Microsoft SQL Server MVP
    Writer, Contributing Editor & Moderator
    http://www.SQL-Server-Performance.Com
    This posting is provided AS IS with no rights for the sake of knowledge sharing. Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information on it.

    I've learnt that you can't expect them to go deep - these are people who were too stupid to learn anything in depth, so they take careers that just require talk, not thought. I have met a few good agents too but they are rare.

    How are the job markets for you both? (or is that another thread?!??!) It's improved markedly here in the UK over the last couple of years, but I'm always interested at how IT is globally.

    I hear they are actually SHORT of qualified/experienced IT bods in India!!! I almost fell off my chair when I heard the news of India lacking manpower in anything, but it makes sense when you analyse it hard-headedly....a nation cannot keep exporting it's best brains, AND keep growing its' own economy, without a shortfall occurring sooner or later.

    Frank, you're German? How's the market there? I understand Germany always had a surplus of heavily qualified people in all sectors, as evinced by the numbers of German Doctors in the UK.

    Jaybee.
  5. FrankKalis Moderator

    Yes, I am German. <br /><br />At the moment everything is hyped about BI. OLAP, Analysis Services, and all that stuff is currently most sought after. But this sort of jobs are many times consultant or contract work for a short period of time until a project is finished. Only a few openings I've seen here for oure DBA's, though the market is taking up speed again. <br /><br />You're absolutely correct. It is still so that people here are well qualified, but the problem is that many of these people move away from here, because other countries offer better conditions (social, economical, academical, etc...). That's a home-grown problem and quite typical for us. [<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-6.gif' alt=':(' />]<br /><br />--<br />Frank Kalis<br />Microsoft SQL Server MVP<br />Contributing Editor, Writer & Forum Moderator<a target="_blank" href=http://www.sql-server-performance.com>http://www.sql-server-performance.com</a><br />Webmaster:<a target="_blank" href=http://www.insidesql.de>http://www.insidesql.de</a>
  6. jaybee New Member

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by FrankKalis</i><br /><br />Yes, I am German. <br /><br />At the moment everything is hyped about BI. OLAP, Analysis Services, and all that stuff is currently most sought after. But this sort of jobs are many times consultant or contract work for a short period of time until a project is finished. Only a few openings I've seen here for oure DBA's, though the market is taking up speed again. <br /><br />You're absolutely correct. It is still so that people here are well qualified, but the problem is that many of these people move away from here, because other countries offer better conditions (social, economical, academical, etc...). That's a home-grown problem and quite typical for us. [<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-6.gif' alt=':(' />]<br /><br />--<br />Frank Kalis<br />Microsoft SQL Server MVP<br />Contributing Editor, Writer & Forum Moderator<a target="_blank" href=http://www.sql-server-performance.com>http://www.sql-server-performance.com</a><br />Webmaster:<a target="_blank" href=http://www.insidesql.de>http://www.insidesql.de</a><br /><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><br /><br />I've heard that Germany actually has unemployed Doctors...you would NEVER find that state of affairs in this country (UK), unless the medic in question wanted a few months off at the state's cost. We are desperately short of Doctors because we provide so little good training for them.<br /><br />I admire the German passion for excellence, and this excellence shows in the depth of training. I work with some German DBA's and I'm often impressed at how they can troubleshoot several pages of incredibly complex SQL in under a minute. Not many Production DBA's can do that here, I certainly cannot!<br /><br />
  7. FrankKalis Moderator

    Yes, but many times people tend to lose themselves in peanuts while forgetting about the big picture.

    As for unemployed doctors: Well, I don't know any. However, many work under relatively poor conditions. High quality education, long working hours, bad payment. We're currently in transition from our old social framework to something new and every lobby is defending its own benefices. There are some mismatches now until a new balance will hopefully be found.

    --
    Frank Kalis
    Microsoft SQL Server MVP
    Contributing Editor, Writer & Forum Moderatorhttp://www.sql-server-performance.com
    Webmaster:http://www.insidesql.de
  8. satya Moderator

    UK is doing well as you said since last 1 and half years, best example is I get atleast 2 calls in a week offering a position to my experience. As usual most of them pretty much basic for my experience and I do tussle with Job agencies stating do not call me unless you meet this criteria [<img src='/community/emoticons/emotion-6.gif' alt=':(' />!].<br /><br />As far as India is concerned I can see there is lot of demand and Infosys (for instance) is recruiting foreign nationals to fillup the gap that is unable to fillup with local talents. I believe this is very tricky situation where you can go hours together to discuss but on the other hand 'they are coping up the pressure' and all I can see is media hype few times. <br /><br />Replying to a query on the increasing backlash against Indian IT professionals and outsourcing to India in some parts overseas I feel like that it is something you have to live with. These are problems of successes, one might say. There is lot of transformation happening on the Intellectual Property space and I expect lot of innovation to come from small companies.<br /><br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jaybee</i><br />.........<br />How are the job markets for you both? (or is that another thread?!??!) It's improved markedly here in the UK over the last couple of years, but I'm always interested at how IT is globally.<br /><br />I hear they are actually SHORT of qualified/experienced IT bods in India!!! I almost fell off my chair when I heard the news of India lacking manpower in anything, but it makes sense when you analyse it hard-headedly....a nation cannot keep exporting it's best brains, AND keep growing its' own economy, without a shortfall occurring sooner or later.<br />.........<br />Jaybee.<br /><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><br /><br /><b>Satya SKJ</b><br />Microsoft SQL Server MVP<br />Writer, Contributing Editor & Moderator<br /<a target="_blank" href=http://www.SQL-Server-Performance.Com>http://www.SQL-Server-Performance.Com</a><br /><center><font color="teal"><font size="1">This posting is provided AS IS with no rights for the sake of <i>knowledge sharing. <hr noshade size="1">Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information on it.</i></font id="size1"></font id="teal"></center>
  9. satya.sqldba New Member

    I have noticed this Hybrid DBA requirement in U.S. too. But only small companies go after them. Very large environments generally go for pure DBA's and I had some interviews where I wasn't asked even a single developer question.

    Practically speaking, how many DBA's would want to sit back and start writing scripts. Only developers who try to elevate themselves as DBA's would want that kind of job. I am not speaking about everyone but about most of the cases that I have seen.


    But with SQL Server 2005, I think ppl are particular about having pure DBA rather than Dev/DBA.

    Satya
  10. satya Moderator

  11. jaybee New Member

    quote:Originally posted by satya.sqldba

    I have noticed this Hybrid DBA requirement in U.S. too. But only small companies go after them. Very large environments generally go for pure DBA's and I had some interviews where I wasn't asked even a single developer question.

    Practically speaking, how many DBA's would want to sit back and start writing scripts. Only developers who try to elevate themselves as DBA's would want that kind of job. I am not speaking about everyone but about most of the cases that I have seen.

    But with SQL Server 2005, I think ppl are particular about having pure DBA rather than Dev/DBA.

    Satya

    As a DBA of seven years standing I still don't know how to write much SQL (see my posts in the Developer forum if you don't believe me!!) but I still get asked to put together ad hoc queries.

    I do feel like I've missed something by never having developed, although I'm administering 100 mil row tables, near TB databases with 3 thousand users and never have a problem I can't resolve within hours; it's rather like knowing your Shakespeare, but you don't know your alphabet. Like an embarassing shortcoming that you hope will never be discovered, but you know someone someday will ask, "Could you inner join these two tables right NOW?", and you sheepishly admit you can't!!

    Only installed 2005 but I'm looking forward to playing with it.

    Jaybee
  12. satya.sqldba New Member

    Hard to accept but same feeling here...

    Satya

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